{"id":842,"date":"2020-03-12T06:46:00","date_gmt":"2020-03-12T10:46:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/?p=842"},"modified":"2021-10-27T14:45:35","modified_gmt":"2021-10-27T18:45:35","slug":"mccoy-tyner-dance-drums-africa-beauty-salons-fourths","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/?p=842","title":{"rendered":"McCoy Tyner: dance, drums, beauty salons & fourths"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

The great McCoy Tyner, giant of jazz, huge influence on me and countless others, died a week ago, on March 6th 2020. Back in 2008, when I was 26, I had the privilege of interviewing him for French magazine Jazzman ahead of the release of his album <\/em>Guitars. Now seems like an apt time to share the interview below, which \u2014 aside from the translated and much condensed version that appeared in the magazine at the time \u2014 has never been published. Thanks to then editor-in-chief Alex Dutilh for trusting my young self with this assignment and giving me the opportunity to talk to one of my heroes.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Dan Tepfer<\/strong>: Hi, McCoy. I should start by telling you that I\u2019m a pianist. I\u2019ve been playing with Lee Konitz for a few years now. It’s been very special for me to find myself on the bandstand with someone I’ve listened to since I was a teenager. Likewise, it’s very special for me to get to talk to you now, because I’ve been listening to you since I was a kid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

McCoy Tyner<\/strong>: Yeah, well, it\u2019s the same for me. I\u2019m happy to meet you young guys on the scene, and when they say \u2018well look, I\u2019ve been listening to you for a long time\u2019, I never think about how old I am, but I think \u2018wow, that\u2019s good that I helped somebody\u2019 or \u2018my presence has a meaning\u2019, you know. That kind of thing makes me feel good \u2014 I have a purpose in life. <\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: You seem to have honored this sense of purpose to an extraordinary degree throughout your life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: I always had the idea that playing music is a great thing. I owe a lot to my mom. She really encouraged me a lot. She was a beautician and had a beauty shop and that\u2019s where my piano went because that was the biggest room in the house. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: In the beauty shop?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, in the beauty shop! We\u2019d have jam sessions in the shop as I got into my teens. There\u2019d be a saxophone player playing a solo next to a lady in the drier. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Did they applaud or was the music treated like background music?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Nah, it was treated like background music. My mother was pretty hip \u2014 she loved jazz. She knew Duke Ellington\u2019s music. She was a very culturally-oriented lady.\u00a0<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: So there was never any question in your family that pursuing music for your career wasn\u2019t a great idea?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: She thought it was a great idea. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: How about your dad?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: He didn\u2019t mind. At first he wasn\u2019t that eager to help me, because he worked manually. I used to go on Saturday and work with him. He didn\u2019t consider playing music to be a regular job. But later on he woke up, he said \u2018oh man, why not\u2019, especially after he saw me in clubs. He was a convert. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: He never put his foot down and said \u2018you’ve got to get a real job\u2019?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: No, he never did that. He wasn\u2019t artistically inclined, but he loved the music. He grew up with Duke Ellington, Woodie Herman, Count Basie. They were heroes to them, the big music stars.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Who were your heroes growing up? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: What was really interesting was that Bud Powell moved right around the corner from me in Philadelphia. In my neighborhood. We had a heck of a scene in Philly, the cats were really practicing, jam sessions all the time. So I learned from the older musicians. And then Bud moved into the neighborhood, Bud used to be walking down the street and we would follow him. He was like in his own world. He was a genius, so I guess his mind was somewhere else. He would communicate, but only for short periods. The moments were very short. But he\u2019d be walking and then he\u2019d go back to his apartment, only a few blocks from where I lived. My hero was my neighbor.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: I remember reading a Monk quote<\/a> where he said, about Bud: \u2018he\u2019s not crazy, he\u2019s just doing that to attract attention! We taught him to do that\u2019.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: [laughs] Oh yeah? That could be! Well Monk was kind of\u2026 he wasn\u2019t as extreme as Bud. But I remember meeting Thelonious because John [Coltrane] had played with Monk for a while. I was very fortunate to have been around when they were around, to have the chance to meet them personally. Monk liked John\u2019s playing a lot so he would come around to hear the [John Coltrane] Quartet when we were in town.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: This was between 61 and 65 or so?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: You\u2019ve got the stats better than me, but it had to be about that time because that\u2019s when the quartet was really happening. But I met John when I was a teenager, when he was with Miles. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: John was a little older than you, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, he was more than a little older. He could have been my older brother. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Was that a situation where you were a big fan of his and suddenly you had the experience of \u2018oh my god, here I am on the bandstand with him\u2019, or did it feel more like a peer relationship?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: He was someone I looked up to because his musicality was unmatched. And the thing is my girlfriend at the time, who became my wife, her older sister was a jazz singer and knew John\u2019s wife Naima. He wrote that great song for her. She knew the family, so I knew her before I met John. So I knew him from the recordings that John did \u2014 with Miles and the later quartet stuff \u2014 but you know, I really got familiar with him through my association with her. It was a kind of big family thing around Philly. And then John left Miles \u2014 he tried quitting twice and left the second time \u2014 and I made some gigs with him in Philly. He treated me like a little brother. I studied some of his tunes \u2014 I knew Giant Steps<\/em>, etc. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a recording of you playing Giant Steps<\/em> with John. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: I think I recorded it solo, but not with John. I\u2019m not sure \u2014 I\u2019ve made more than fifty recordings in my life! But it was in my repertoire. He wrote some nice tunes: Giant Steps<\/em>, Countdown<\/em>, Mr P.C.<\/em> \u2014 he wrote that one when he was with Miles, for Paul Chambers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: I\u2019ve been enjoying your recording of Mr P.C.<\/em> on your new album, Guitars<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Oh yeah. Those are some great guys on there, some really nice guys. They\u2019ve got their own style and they knew a lot of my songs and some of John\u2019s. Bela Fleck was on My Favorite Things<\/em> and Greensleeves<\/em>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: How did your repertoire choices come about for the record?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: They knew my songs. It was nice to see that they knew my repertoire, stuff that I had written. John Scofield was on Mr P.C.<\/em> \u2014 I think Sco brought that up. Passion Dance<\/em> is something that I wrote, and Mark Ribot \u2014 these guys, they knew what they wanted \u2014 they wanted to play. And they did a great job!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Coming back to these Coltrane tunes, the ones with very dense changes. You were on the scene at the time when these tunes emerged. Was that a big shock to players at the time? Were people struggling to navigate John\u2019s changes?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: No, you know I used to practice all the time. I couldn\u2019t wait to get home. Before my mother bought me a piano, she had three clients whose hair she used to do who had pianos. So I would alternate \u2014 I would go to one of my mother\u2019s clients one day\u2026 I had three homes I could go to to play. Then she bought me a piano, a spinet. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: How much did you practice a day?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A: It depended \u2014 I would try to get an hour in; sometimes it would run longer. An hour is a safe bet. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Did you study classical music?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: I did, I had a great teacher. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: What age did you start?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: I was thirteen. I can\u2019t believe it, I was thirteen \u2014 I once was thirteen! I formed an R&B band with a saxophone player who lived not far from me. I used to play with a lot of blues singers \u2014 they had the gigs! People would come and dance. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: So your evolution really comes out of dance music and the blues, and classical music for the technique. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, yeah. Also another thing: house rockin<\/em>. Like blues, but with a backbeat. Like the shuffle. You\u2019d rock the house with it. I played gigs in people\u2019s houses, in my late teens. And then I met John [Coltrane] around that time. He came by the home twice. He was with Miles. Before he left Miles the second time, he told me \u2018I\u2019m leaving Miles and I want to have my own band\u2019. He liked my playing. So I said \u2018let me know whenever you\u2019re ready\u2019!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: When you joined that band, with John Coltrane, the rhythm section had one of the most incredible chemistries we\u2019ve ever heard in jazz. Did that happen immediately, with Elvin Jones and Jimmy Garrison?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Pete La Roca played drums with us for a while. John told me: \u2018I know this drummer in Detroit, named Elvin Jones\u2019. The first time we hit, man, it was at a rehearsal, I couldn\u2019t believe this guy. I said \u2018wow\u2019! He was incredible\u2026 but he\u2019d listen! Because playing with Hank, who was his brother and played piano, he had a sympathy, he was empathizing with the piano. You know his brother Hank Jones was one of the greatest piano players in jazz. Elvin would pick up the brushes. A lot of people would say he was very loud and all, but he would pick up the brushes when I would take a solo, not all the time but a lot of the time, so people could hear the piano. It was great, man. He was so musical. When he and Jimmy hooked up it was amazing, those guys really locked in.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: I remember seeing a video of you with Jimmy Garrison and Elvin<\/a> playing on an outdoor stage somewhere and the piano \u2014 a big concert grand \u2014 is literally rocking back and forth. The energy you guys had on stage was phenomenal.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. It was a joy playing with them guys. The thing is with them, they were supportive. They were listening to each other. I listened to Elvin, Elvin\u2019s listening to me, Jimmy\u2019s right there. Jimmy had good time and he\u2019d be locking in. We were like brothers. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: So there was never a feeling being loud because you wanted to be loud, there was a feeling of the music just organically going there?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah. It wasn\u2019t\u2026 I know Elvin was a strong drummer, but he would pick up the brushes. He was very conscious of supporting \u2014 John would play a phrase and he would play a phrase that would complement the phrase that he was playing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: There was never a feeling of him overpowering anyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: No, no. Unless there was something wrong with the sound system. And he would come down! He would come down to compensate for what was not happening sound-wise. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Before you were with Trane, you were part of the Jazztet. How did that happen?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: I\u2019ll tell you what happened. Benny Golson was from North Philly. I played a gig with him and he got a gig in San Francisco and he said man, would you like to go out with me and I said listen, I\u2019ll go out with you but I\u2019ve already promised John that I\u2019d be in his band when he leaves Miles. He and Art Farmer hooked up and that\u2019s when we put together the Jazztet. And that\u2019s when we did Killer Joe<\/em> and all those tunes. [Benny] and Art were playing in the band so I said okay, but I wanted to play with John. But every time John wanted to leave Miles he would always give him a raise and ask him to stay. John and Miles were pretty tight so it was hard for him to break away like that. But he had to do it and thank goodness because I was ready to join his band \u2014 we had a rapport, a good chemistry. It\u2019s funny how things happen step by step, you know, one thing and you go from here to there and before you know it you complete a cycle and you\u2019re in something else. You look back and it tells a story, I guess.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: You\u2019ve done an incredible amount of work as a sideman and as a leader. I\u2019m a young musician but I\u2019ve had a taste of both sides, and there are differences. I remember coming across a quote of Joe Henderson\u2019s, on the liner notes to Tetragon<\/em>, I think, where he says: \u2018My sole ambition when I\u2019m a leader on a recording session is to completely forget that I\u2019m a leader and feel like a sideman\u2019.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, I can understand that. You don\u2019t try to search for dominance, you know, because you\u2019ve got other people and you want that chemistry. And that\u2019s important. And that makes a record sound more harmonious. Makes it sound like you\u2019re playing like a group. That happens when people are listening to each other, even if they haven\u2019t been playing for that long.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: You\u2019ve gone back and re-recorded tunes. You recorded Passion Dance<\/em> on The Real McCoy<\/em>, and then you have a record called Passion Dance<\/em> that\u2019s from 1978, 11 years later. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah \u2014 and I recorded it again with Mark Ribot on Guitars<\/em>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: That must be an incredible thing to have a composition like Passion Dance<\/em> that\u2019s become such a staple that people want to hear it again and again. You\u2019ve recorded it at all these different periods in your life, so it becomes a prism through which we can see your evolution as a musician. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Duke Ellington was like that. He wrote a lot of tunes and he played them with his big band. And that\u2019s good to play your music. Nothing wrong with that. You get better and better at composing. I can tell when I\u2019ve written something that really strikes home, were you say \u2018I\u2019m really glad I wrote this\u2019. And your feelings change, it depends on the time period when you wrote the song, what was going on in your life and whatever. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: As you mature, do you feel that your outlook on music changes? Do you get more contemplative as you get older? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, I think things change. And that\u2019s good. But I think it\u2019s better when you\u2019re building on something. Make everything part of your development. Use everything that you\u2019re exposed to in terms of your own musical personality, and build on it. Not to say you should play the same thing for ten or twenty years, but use that time period as a stepping stone towards where you\u2019re going next. You build and build and you look back and say wow, that\u2019s what I did ten years ago, how interesting. And sometimes you\u2019re so busy moving ahead you don\u2019t have time to do that, but you can hear it in the music. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: That\u2019s something that really fascinates me with your music. You\u2019re someone who\u2019s taken a germ of an idea and developed it over a long time. I\u2019m speaking in particular of your use of chords built in fourths. Do you remember when you first came across those sounds?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: I used to listen to a lot of different kinds of music. I played out of a book of different classics, a book of all the great European composers. But I knew that I had to have something that came from me. I kept that in mind. I always wanted to have my own feeling and my own sound. That\u2019s what I think you have to do. You can\u2019t forget that you\u2019re the guy who\u2019s really making this thing happen. I don\u2019t care what you do; maybe you\u2019re influenced by someone you like \u2014 Bud Powell moved into my neighborhood, Thelonious Monk I saw, a lot of great guys \u2014 I know Bill Evans was around, Herbie\u2026 everybody was looking for themselves<\/em>. And I respected that. I realized when I was young: man, you\u2019ve got something to offer. Why not let it happen?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: So you always had that feeling about yourself. And once you found something that felt distinctly your own, you just kept developing it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, you have to. I think it\u2019s important. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: As a pianist, I have to ask: these quartal sounds, how did you develop them? Did you create exercises for yourself?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: No, just playing. Because you have to grow, and growing is by doing. It\u2019s hard to practice something like that. Your sound is you, like the way you talk. Like if I have a couple conversations with you, next time you call I\u2019ll say hey, what\u2019s happening man? Your voice is your identity. It\u2019s your signature. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Do you feel that that\u2019s something that\u2019s maybe been forgotten a little bit today, with younger musicians?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: I can understand being influenced \u2014 I was influenced by Bud and Monk and what have you, but you have to find out who number one is and that\u2019s you. I think it\u2019s a different world now, the business is different. I think that record companies, I don\u2019t know what they\u2019re looking for. I think originality maybe is not in some cases valued as much. At least by some promoters. But the good ones exist \u2014 you have to find the right guy. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Another pianist question: you have one of the most physical approaches to the piano \u2014 you get this incredibly strong sound. I remember reading a quote of John\u2019s about you: \u2018beauty is exactly the word for McCoy\u2019s playing, and it\u2019s all of a piece because he lives like that too\u2019. You manage to make a big, strong, loud sound that\u2019s also beautiful, and that\u2019s one of the hardest things to do as a pianist. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: I think what it is, is you have to utilize the pedals. Use a lot of pedal but don\u2019t lay on it so stuff runs into other things. Knowing how to lift off to get the sound. Then come back on it and let it come up because otherwise it\u2019ll all come together. It\u2019s a technique you can use \u2014 open the dampers on the piano. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: I wanted to ask you about your relationship to Africa. You have some beautiful albums, like Asante<\/em>, which to me are some of the most successful integrations of African rhythms with jazz.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: You know it\u2019s really something, because I was always interested in African culture since I was a teenager. I used to play conga drums too. I stopped because it was making the joints of my fingers swell. I was hanging around with a guy who was a drummer who lived right up the street from me, Garvin [Masseaux]. He played trap drums and he played conga drums very well. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: This was in Philly?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah. We took dancing lessons too. One of my teachers in junior high, she knew this lady who had a dance troupe, and she said she needed some male dancers. And so I said maybe I\u2019ll give it a shot \u2014 maybe I can learn how to dance. But I didn\u2019t stop playing piano. I played a little piano there for some of the pieces that were choreographed by the teachers there. But I really got interested in the dancing. There was a guy named Saka Acquaye who came to teach African dance at the dance school. So we were hanging out with some guys from Africa and kind of caught on, you know. Actually Garvin [Masseaux] was really a good conga player and a guy named Bobby Crowder<\/a> from Philly was also a great player. We had the fortune of having these African guys who played for the dance school. And the chance to really meet them. So it was a combination of a lot of things: cultural identification as well as actually getting your notes from people who were active in that area. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: This was all when you were a teenager in Philly?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah. Not many people know this, so I\u2019m letting you in on a secret: I studied ballet and African dancing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Wow. I studied ballet too when I was a kid, actually. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, I studied ballet. I was a teenager. It was interesting because I heard a lot of different music. We danced to Stravinsky and some of the other composers and I played a lot of it. I was studying piano, had a great teacher and a book full of Chopin, Beethoven, Bach. They were real popular compositions that they had written back in the day. It was interesting, my teenage days. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Your teenage years were so culturally diverse: you had all of European culture from your classical piano studies and the ballet, you had all of contemporary African-American musical culture too \u2014 house rockin<\/em>, jazz, blues, and now you\u2019re telling me that you also had the whole African cultural upbringing through African drumming and African dancing. That\u2019s really incredible. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: It\u2019s amazing, isn\u2019t it. Kind of covered the whole spectrum. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: And that was all when you were a teenager. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, because I enjoyed all the music. All the music I was studying out of my books.  And then I had a one on one experience playing congas; of course I had to stop because like I said it was hurting the joints of my fingers so I said stop this. But it was really interesting while I was involved. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Well, that certainly explains a lot of your later development. Tell me, if you would, a little more specifically about Asante<\/em>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, I think it was something that sort of grew out of my experience of being a teenager. Those rhythms. That\u2019s what I was exposed to \u2014 different rhythms, African rhythms. So I think it stayed with me. It was part of my exposure as a teenager, culturally. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Where would you say you get inspiration for composition?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: I don\u2019t know \u2014 it think it was a gift. I think it has something to do with the fact that studying piano and music itself \u2014 I studied theory as well. I was very fortunate \u2014 I was exposed to so many things, culturally. And for some reason \u2014 I had a band, too. Garvin [Masseaux] was playing not only congas but drums as well. And so I had a shot of that with some guys who I went to school with. A bass player and Garvin and some other people who were older than we were but that exposed us to different things as well. So it was a multitude of exposures.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: So that all informed your composing. What\u2019s your creative process when you\u2019re writing? Is it deadline-related? Or do you compose all the time?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Well yeah. I love to compose. When I do a recording, I always have to introduce some new material, some fresh stuff, something I just wrote. I don\u2019t know why but I do. It\u2019s good for me because if I have tunes of mine to perform, I think it\u2019s directly because I\u2019ve written a lot of those songs for recordings. I wanted to write something and I had a deadline \u2014 the date was set to record \u2014 and I had figured out the instrumentation I wanted to use, and I would write new songs. So a lot of my original material came from recording sessions. But a lot of my songs I wrote right before recording them. So I really got familiar with my music playing it on gigs. So sometimes I\u2019m more familiar with my music after recording; when I\u2019m doing club dates and concerts. Because tunes will grow and develop as you play them. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: So you\u2019re able to sit down at the piano with the intent to write a song and something pretty much always comes up?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, it comes up through the soul. With major preparation. It\u2019s just something that \u2014 I\u2019ll play a melody and embellish on that and before you know it there\u2019s a beginning and a middle part and a repeat, usually \u2014 I\u2019ll go back to the first part of the melody, so it has form. And I\u2019ll figure out the harmonic concept I want to use. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Does that often come after the melody, for you? Or before?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Well, um, yeah. Sometimes the chords inspire the sound itself that I use. Inspires me to write a melody based on what sound I may run into at that time. Maybe \u2018run into\u2019 isn\u2019t the best way to explain this…<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: This stuff is difficult to explain.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah \u2014 I\u2019ve done a lot of music interviews over the years. And I do all right with explaining something but sometimes it\u2019s hard to explain your style, because I know that a lot of pianists listen to my recordings and they learn more from that than they do from asking me questions. Because it\u2019s hard for me to relate to what I\u2019m doing by just talking about it. I mean I try to describe it \u2014 I do the best I can.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: I think you’re doing a great job. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: thanks, Dan, I\u2019m glad somebody thinks so.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Speaking of personal style, I remember years ago transcribing your solo off of Passion Dance<\/em>, on The Real McCoy<\/em>. In the majority of the solo you\u2019re playing in this Fsus area and it struck me that you\u2019re virtually not at all using the note D in your lines. You\u2019re avoiding that note. Years later I came across the concept of hexatonics, scales of six notes. And so I wanted to hear your thoughts on that, how you came across that idea. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: For some reason I like that sound. You know, the fourths sound, the fifths. And rather than playing chords the way everybody else plays it, you know, and moving around. Once you set the root of the sound that the melody is based on, I usually try to keep the voicing open so I can move around. I can play an Eb seventh chord on top of an F or Ab, or B, all of that stuff1<\/a><\/sup>McCoy was being very specific here: Eb7 is the dominant of Ab Major or minor. In classical harmony, it’s common, instead of resolving from Eb7 to Ab Major, to instead perform a deceptive cadence to the relative minor, F minor (or, for more of a special effect, to go straight to the parallel Major of F minor, F Major). Likewise, since Eb7 resolves to Ab minor, it’s also common to resolve instead to the relative Major of Ab minor, another deceptive cadence to Cb Major, or (enharmonically) B Major. More generally speaking, Eb7 can resolve to Ab, B, D and F because Eb7 is an instance of G diminished. I think it’s interesting that McCoy is quoting rigorous classical theory here \u2014 theory which, by the way, someone like Steve Coleman uses extensively and teaches \u2014 but couches it in the more poetic language of “sounds that sort of connect”.<\/span>. All of those sounds sort of connect. And I think that if you voice things properly you can go where you want to go. When you first start playing you play chords that are based on root, third, fifth, that sort of thing. But if you play the voicing open, you can move around because I think every chord is related to the other one, whatever chord you want to pick. It\u2019s how you resolve<\/em> things. I hope I\u2019m making sense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q:<\/strong> You\u2019re making a lot of sense. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: I know you know what I\u2019m talking about. You play piano.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Yeah, I totally hear you and I think the readers will love hearing this stuff too. I guess the point of interviews sometimes is to let the people who don\u2019t play have a glimpse of what\u2019s going on. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Like a tapestry of sound. One sound is related to another. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: For example, in that solo, the fact that you\u2019re avoiding the note D \u2014 that\u2019s part of your tapestry, that\u2019s part of the creation of the color?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, that keeps me from being locked into that F sound so I can\u2019t move. Not that I can\u2019t<\/em> move, but it suggests movement. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: So leaving one note out makes it more open.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, you could say that. And then you resolve it. Once you establish the sound, maybe by leaving that D out, maybe in the melody or in the beginning of the solo, then you can move around, you can move the bass around, it\u2019s all related. You can play Bb Ab B Db whatever you want to do you can move around, so long as you resolve things in a good way so it makes sense. To me, anyway. Everybody has a \u2014 if you talk to Cecil Taylor he probably has another idea of how it should go. And that\u2019s great \u2014 that\u2019s what it\u2019s all about. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: I remember reading a great quote of Art Tatum\u2019s, where he says \u201cthere are no wrong notes, there are only wrong ways of leaving notes\u201d.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Exactly. Exactly. It\u2019s perfect. There are no wrong notes \u2014 it\u2019s what you do with them, how you resolve them, how you move from one thing to another. It\u2019s a resolution, I think. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: You\u2019ve made some great solo piano albums. How is playing solo piano different from playing in a band, for you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: I do things in contrast. If I do a quartet thing, then I might do something solo, then I might do something quintet, then in a sextet, then a big band. I try to make it so that if people buy my recordings they\u2019ll have a little collections of different me’s in different settings. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: That explains why you\u2019ve worked with so many different people in your bands over the years. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, you\u2019re right. Just to add a little contrast to my performances. Just to give me something to do. Also when I play live. Sometimes, like, my big band \u2014 I\u2019ve had some great guys in my big band \u2014 really nice guys.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: I love your album Uptown\/Downtown.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah yeah! Those guys are so nice, man. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Do you think you\u2019ll have a big band again in the future?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Yeah, I\u2019d like to tour with it. It\u2019s an expensive process. I have to have a tour set up so that \u2014 you know, with more than one gig, so they don\u2019t fly out and do only a couple gigs. It\u2019s hard to do that because it\u2019s so expensive. Everyone\u2019s trying to get paid, then you got transportation, but the promoter usually pays for that \u2014 the transportation and the hotels. And so me and my agency take care of the salaries of the musicians. And usually the guys in my big band \u2014 they\u2019re still a lot of guys around who play in my big band and they\u2019re happy to see the band \u2014 they ask: \u2018when are we going to play with the big band?\u2019 It\u2019s the chance to see some musical friends and sit next to guys with whom they\u2019re familiar. It\u2019s fun but it\u2019s an expensive process. We went a lot of places with the big band. That\u2019s a lot of fun. Then I\u2019ll break down and do a trio tour or quintet or something else. Some violins \u2014 I had John Blake<\/a> with me \u2014 so the recordings are comprised of a variety of musical settings. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: I think I\u2019ve covered what I wanted to ask you about, is there anything else you wanted to add to the interview?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Well, Dan, I wanted to tell you man, it\u2019s been a pleasure to talk to you. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Oh it\u2019s truly my pleasure, McCoy, you\u2019re one of my heroes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A<\/strong>: Really is. See, you\u2019re a musician, that\u2019s the difference. I mean, it\u2019s good, there are guys who really know how to write articles in magazines and newspapers but when you talk to a musician it\u2019s special. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q<\/strong>: Well it\u2019s special for me, I\u2019ll tell you. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk today.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The great McCoy Tyner, giant of jazz, huge influence on me and countless others, died a week ago, on March 6th 2020. Back in 2008, when I was 26, I had the privilege of interviewing him for French magazine Jazzman … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5],"tags":[39,53],"class_list":["post-842","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-music-2","tag-jazz","tag-mccoy-tyner"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/842","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=842"}],"version-history":[{"count":28,"href":"https:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/842\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1339,"href":"https:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/842\/revisions\/1339"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=842"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=842"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dantepfer.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=842"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}